In this episode of the SwineTime Podcast, Dr. Spencer Wayne sits down with Jim Marzolf, Executive Vice President of Pipestone Business Services, to discuss a topic that hits close to home for many farm families: succession planning. Passing the torch to the next generation isn’t just about keeping the farm running—it’s about protecting a legacy.…
Category: SwineTime Podcast
Episode #69: BONUS EPISODE - New Roots Haiti
In the latest episode of SwineTime, host Dr. Spencer Wayne sits down with Dr. Joel Nerem from PIPESTONE and Nikki Stolberg from New Roots Haiti, an organization doing incredible work to improve the lives of people in and around a small Haitian village. Together, they dive into the amazing ways New Roots Haiti is…
Episode #68: Journey Through Pig Production in the UK
In this episode of SwineTime, Dr. Spencer Wayne sits down with UK swine veterinarian, Dr. Alex Thomsett, and explores the ins and outs of UK pig farming. Dr. Thomsett shares how UK farms operate under very different rules: weaning at 28 days, tail docking restrictions, minimal castration, and higher welfare standards. Each of these regulations…
Episode #67: Maximize Profits with Market Sales & Selection
In the latest episode of the SwineTime Podcast, host Dr. Spencer Wayne chats with Alex Kremer, FarmPro’s new Market Sales Manager, about the crucial role pig selection plays in boosting profits. Kremer shares insights on how selling pigs at the right weight and at the right time can make a big financial difference for farmers.…
Episode #66: Mastering Climate Control for Healthier Pigs
Join Dr. Spencer Wayne as he chats with Dr. Jeff Blythe and FarmPro Production Consultant, Nick Enfield about the everyday ventilation challenges pig farmers face. They dive into practical solutions to improve barn conditions, focusing on the importance of getting airspeed right, placing temperature probes effectively, and keeping equipment well-maintained. The trio discusses how poor…
Episode #64: Safeguarding Food & Farm - Inside NBAF (National Bio and Agro-Defense Facility)
In this episode of the SwineTime podcast, hosted by Dr. Spencer Wayne of Pipestone Veterinary Services, listeners are treated to a fascinating discussion with Dr. Maggie Behnke, Director of the Animal Resources Unit and attending veterinarian at the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s National Bio and Agro-Defense Facility (NBAF) in Manhattan, Kansas. Dr. Karyn Havas,…
Episode #61: What is SHIC?
In this episode of the SwineTime podcast, host Dr. Spencer Wayne interviews Dr. Megan Niederwerder, Executive Director of the Swine Health Information Center (SHIC). SHIC, established in 2015, focuses on identifying and mitigating emerging disease risks for the U.S. swine herd. SHIC is supported by pork checkoff funds and its mission involves global disease…
Episode #59: Warm Weather Ventilation Checklist
In this episode, Dr. Spencer Wayne sits down with Erin McCoy to discuss proper barn ventilation as the weather begins to warm up. Erin, a veterinary physician assistant at Pipestone Veterinary Services, shares her warm-weather ventilation checklist and emphasizes the importance of opening soffit doors and ensuring proper ventilation by uncovering fans. She provides…
Ep: #58: Using Research and Production Data to Drive Genetics
Join Dr. Spencer Wayne on the latest episode of SwineTime, where he dives deep into swine genetics with experts Erin Little, Director of Research Operations for Pipestone Research, and Carrie Pollard, FarmStats Senior Analyst with Pipestone Business. Erin and Carrie discuss how PIPESTONE is unlocking valuable insights into swine genetics for producers using both…
Ep. #57: Pig Pathogens: Understanding Current Diseases
Join Dr. Spencer Wayne and Dr. Cameron Schmitt in discussing the ever-evolving landscape of swine diseases. In this episode, Dr. Schmitt, Executive Vice President of Pipestone Veterinary Services, delves deep into the nuances of various pathogens affecting swine health today. From the notorious PRRS virus to resilient strains of E. coli, they dissect the…
Ep. #56: Impacting Producers through Diagnostics
In this episode of the SwineTime podcast, host Dr. Spencer Wayne interviews Dr. Darin Madson, a diagnostician at the Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory at Iowa State University. Dr. Madson shares his background in swine production, veterinary school, and his journey to becoming a diagnostic pathologist. The conversation covers the expansion of the diagnostic lab at…
Ep. #55: Riding the Wave of Feed Cost Fluctuations
In this episode of the SwineTime podcast, Dr. Spencer Wayne welcomes Dr. Kiah Berg, Senior Supervisor of Nutrition with Pipestone Nutrition, to discuss the state of feed costs and her recommendations for proper nutrition strategies. Dr. Berg explains the recent trends in feed costs, highlighting the notable decrease in prices for key ingredients such…
Episode #54: Life Lessons from Dr. Dee
In this episode of the SwineTime podcast, hosted by Dr. Spencer Wayne, the featured guest is Dr. Scott Dee who shares valuable insights for young veterinarians, emphasizing the importance of perseverance, recalling his journey from being told he couldn’t attend vet school to becoming a prominent figure in the field. The discussion also touches…
Episode #53: Welfare + Sustainability from Farmer to Packer
In this episode of SwineTime, Dr. Spencer Wayne welcomes Dr. Cara Haden, Director of Animal Welfare at PIPESTONE, and Dr. Carissa Odland, Director of Sustainability for Wholestone Farms, a producer-owned packer enterprise. The episode explores perspectives on welfare and sustainability in the swine industry. Dr. Haden discusses her role in promoting animal welfare at…
Episode #52: Fall Health Update
Dr. Spencer Wayne welcomes Dr. Adam Schelkopf, Health Director for Pipestone Management, for a discussion on the overall health status of PIPESTONE-managed farms. Historically, this time of year brings an increase in illness in barns, especially PRRS infections. Dr. Schelkopf reports less than 10% of PIPESTONE-managed farms breaking with PRRS over the last two…
Episode #51: Nutrient Management
Dr. Spencer Wayne welcomes Marty Rost, Environmental Specialist with PIPESTONE, to talk about the valuable commodity we have in manure. The pair discuss the importance of understanding its value and making it work for you and your neighbors. Marty talks about the differences in facilities he sees and shares insight on finding opportune times to…
Episode #50 - Celebrating SwineTime!
Dr. Barry Kerkaert, Chairman of the Board, takes the reigns and puts Dr. Spencer Wayne in the hot seat to celebrate our 50th episode of the podcast. The pair discuss the goals of SwineTime and reflect on some of Dr. Wayne’s favorite episodes. He shares behind-the-scenes happenings reflecting on memorable guests and the impactful work…
Episode #49 - Farmers First at PIPESTONE
This month, Dr. Spencer Wayne welcomed Hannah Walkes, President of Pipestone Services, to chat about the recent leadership transitions at PIPESTONE – including the creation of two divisions, Pipestone Services and Pipestone Partnerships. Hannah provides insight into how her upbringing and tenure at PIPESTONE have fueled her passion and made her uniquely qualified to take…
Episode #48: Pigs to People with Dr. Taylor
In this episode of SwineTime, host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, is joined by Dr. Taylor Spronk to talk about the pig promotion activities happening at PIPESTONE. Dr. Taylor discusses the 9 county and state fairs that PIPESTONE supports with exhibits and live sows across Minnesota, South Dakota, and Iowa. Additionally, she describes the Discovery Barn, championed…
Episode #47: Pipestone Nutrition with Jon
In this episode of SwineTime, host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, sits down with Jon DeJong, President of Pipestone Nutrition to talk about what’s new with his team and all things nutrition. Pipestone Nutrition provides economic-driven, feed ingredient procurement and performance-based diet formulations that fit both your operation and your bottom line. Dr. Wayne and DeJong discuss…
Episode #46: Support & Solutions with FarmTeam
In this episode of SwineTime, host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, sits down with Dan Hanson and Giovanna Penuelas to discuss FarmTeam, a service offering of Pipestone Business. FarmTeam utilizes the human resource expertise of PIPESTONE to provide independent pork producers access to qualified farm employees for grow/finish teams. From a producer’s perspective, Hanson, the Director of…
Episode #45: Money with Damon
In this episode of SwineTime, host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, sits down with Damon Vander Maten, Director of FarmBooks for Pipestone Business. Dr. Wayne and Damon talk about the accounting demands on producers and define what it means to be financially sustainable. He explains how the FarmBooks program came to be and what value it provides…
Episode 44: Tackling High Feed Costs
In this episode of SwineTime, host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, sits down with PIPESTONE Nutritionists Hayden Kerkaert and Jacob Koepke. They share their perspective on what factors are impacting today’s high feed costs and discuss considerations for producers to remain profitable despite rising costs. PIPESTONE’s mission is “Helping Farmers Today Create the Farms of Tomorrow.” The…
Episode 43: Minutes with Minion
In this episode of SwineTime, host Dr. Spencer Wayne and PIPESTONE CEO Dr. Luke Minion answer all your big burning questions: what’s to come in the pork industry next year? What’s new with PIPESTONE? And will Luke ever run for office? Fresh off the campaign trail against a Sioux Falls ballot measure that would have…
Episode 42: Feed Risk with Dr. Scott Dee
In this episode of SwineTime, host Dr. Spencer Wayne sits down with Dr. Scott Dee, who currently serves as the Director of Research for PIPESTONE Veterinary Services. Dive into the viral risks associated with feed, and how to alleviate the risks on your operation. According to Scott, this information is relatively new to the industry…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 40: Factors of a Sow Herd Health Upgrade
In this 40th episode of SwineTime Podcast, host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, sits down with Dr. Adam Schelkopf. Adam has been with PIPESTONE for 10 years now and holds the title, Director of Health for Pipestone Managed farms. Sow repopulation can be an intimidating idea for pig farmers, but in some cases, is a financially beneficial…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 39: Can We Eliminate Mycoplasma?
In this episode of SwineTime, Dr. Spencer Wayne talks all things Mycoplasma with fellow PIPESTONE Veterinarian, Dr. Emily McDowell. Emily has been with PIPESTONE for 9 years and has a special interest in Mycoplasma. Mycoplasma hyopneumoniae is a bacterial pathogen that has been an industry concern for over 50 years. It generally originates at the…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 38: PIPESTONE Transport
SwineTime Podcast host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, sits down with PIPESTONE’s President of Transport, Hal Schmidt. Hal is a long-time employee with PIPESTONE and transitioned to transportation 8 years ago. Pipestone Transport falls under the Management business unit and serves to help our Pipestone Management shareholders receive their wean pigs, transport our managed barn’s sows and…
SwineTime Podcast- Bonus: APP SeroType
Dr. Bryan Myers has gained quite the experience and wisdom from being a veterinarian for the last 34 years. In these years, he has seen the serious effects of various diseases that have infected the swine industry. He is now seeing APP, an old disease that has resurfaced after almost 20 years in some of…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 37: Safety
Safety is the number one priority at PIPESTONE. On this episode of SwineTime Podcast, host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, chats with Josh Pawson, PIPESTONE’s safety director. Josh takes us through his personal journey to being a safety director and explains what a day in his role looks like. Prepare your farm for an OSHA inspection, take…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 36: Gilt Multiplication
Raising a healthy group of pigs starts long before they reach the finishing barn. In this episode of SwineTime Podcast, host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, is joined by Dr. Evan Koep, PIPESTONE’s resource in gilt multiplication. Throughout the episode, listeners gain an understanding of what gilt multiplication is, and how it benefits piglets for the long…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 35: Risk Management
Managing risks is the safest way for pig farmers to protect their operations and ensure they can withstand tough times in the market. Hear from Brian Stevens, President of Big Stone Marketing, in this episode of SwineTime Podcast. This episode is all about risks in the pig market, how to prepare for them and what…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 34: Basics in Nutrition
SwineTime Podcast Host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, sits down with Hayden Kerkaert, a nutritionist with Pipestone Nutrition, to start back at the basics of pig nutrition. Throughout the episode, Hayden drills down on the importance of a nursery diet and how critical a piglet’s first three weeks of life are. Grow-finish farmers will gain tips on…
SwineTime Podcast Ep. 32: Getting Started in Pig Farming
Passion, commitment and networking; words used to describe the lifestyle of a pig farmer throughout this episode of SwineTime. Are you or someone you know interested in pig farming? In the 32nd episode, Dr. Spencer Wayne visits with Dr. Barry Kerkaert, President of Pipestone Management, and Justin Roelofs, Chief Financial Officer for Pipestone Management. Together,…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 31- PIPESTONE Construction
On the 31st episode of SwineTime, Dr. Spencer Wayne sits down with the Head of Construction for Pipestone Management, Tad Woelber. Tad and his team strive to build pig barns that not only maximize production, but efficiency as well. Keeping barns cost effective while building them to last has always been the objective of building…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 30: Meticulous Design, Execution and Analysis of Swine Research
Designed for innovative knowledge generation, Pipestone Applied Research focuses on production-driven research to develop practical solutions to relevant problems. Since 2009, Pipestone Research has been committed to providing industry-leading and relevant information on swine health, genetics, nutrition, production, and sustainability. SwineTime Podcast Host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, visits with PIPESTONE’s Director of Research Operations, Dan Hanson,…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 29: Wholestone Farms with CEO, Scott Webb
In this episode of SwineTime Podcast, host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, visits with Wholestone Farms CEO, Scott Webb. Scott’s background in agriculture has given him experience working with both crop and livestock farmers; a feat which has proven its significance in his current role. Wholestone Farms is a producer-owned packing plant located in Fremont, Nebraska. Their…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 28: PRRSV 144
In partnership with Boehringer Ingelheim Animal Health USA Inc., Pipestone Research has provided a rapid response to bring science-based answers to managing the emergence of PRRSV 144. Join SwineTime Podcast host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, Veterinarian, as he discusses the trial results with Dr. Scott Dee, Director of Research at PIPESTONE. Joining Dr. Dee is Dr.…
ASF Preparedness with PIPESTONE CVO, Joel Nerem
African Swine Fever (ASF)’s threat to USA farmers has never been more real. With the recent detection of ASF in the Dominican Republic, ASF has been introduced in the Western Hemisphere for the first time in over 40 years. Join SwineTime Podcast host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, as he visits with Dr. Joel Nerem, PIPESTONE Chief…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 27: Sharing the Pig Farming Story through TikTok
Dr. Cara Haden, a PIPESTONE pig vet located in Independence, IA, took a social media journey that has helped educate thousands of people. In October 2020, Cara created a TikTok account to share pig farming content. Her goals remain to educate the public on where their pork comes from as well as showcase how much…
SwineTime Episode 26: How TN Visa Talent From Mexico Can Impact Your Farm
Manual labor requirements are shared from farm to farm. What would it look like to add talented labor focused team members to your operation? In this episode of SwineTime Podcast, host Spencer Wayne, veterinarian and owner with Pipestone Veterinary Services is joined with Rob Hofmeyer, member of the Pipestone Business Services team and Jesus Colorado…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 25: PRRS Virus 144 Lineage 1C
Pig farmers across the world have been dealing with the effects of PRRS for decades. Continued research shows different strains of the virus have evolved over time, making it difficult to control. PIPESTONE is working to get answers on how to slow the spread of PRRS and best management practices moving forward. Join Dr. Spencer…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 24: What You Say Matters!
Summer is a social season! Great opportunities arise to share your story! Only 2% of the population raises food for the entire world, and that is you! No one is more passionate, caring, or committed to the humane care of animals and safe food than you. Pig care is more than just bacon, it is…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 23: The Latest on Disease Feed Risk
Based on the current body of knowledge, it is evident that feed and feed ingredients are risk factors for the transboundary spread of viruses, including African Swine Fever virus, classical swine fever virus, pseudorabies virus, and porcine epidemic diarrhea virus. Dr. Spencer Wayne, Host of SwineTime Podcast with Pipestone Veterinary Services visits with Dr. Scott…
SwineTime Podcast Episode 22: Managing Old Assets
What do you do with an old facility? How do you know when to fix it or replace it? Host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, visits with Dr. Barry Kerkaert, veterinarian and Pipestone Management President, and Justin Roelofs, CFO of Pipestone Management about Managing Old Assets in the 22nd Episode of SwineTime Podcast. Don’t miss future…
The Perceived Soybean Meal Shortage with Gordon Denny
Pork is hugely important to domestic and international soybean meal consumption. Closely following poultry, swine consumes a large percentage of soybeans available in the United States. Guest host, Amber Pugh, a Director of Procurement with Pipestone Nutrition, hosts Gordon Denny, a soybean industry professional, to discuss the perceived soybean meal shortage in our industry. As…
Podcast 20: Influenza: History, Symptoms, and Eradication Protocols with Dr. Cameron Schmitt
Over the years, veterinarians and the pork industry have tackled eradiation protocols for viruses like PRRS, PED, and Mycoplasma, yet influenza remains a common occurrence in the field. In this Episode, host Dr. Spencer Wayne talks with Dr. Cameron Schmitt, Veterinarian with PIPESTONE, in the 20th episode of SwineTime about Swine Influenza and efforts to…
Podcast 19: Sustaining the Pig farm of Tomorrow
By taking care of the land and natural resources, farmers have naturally practiced and cared about sustainability for generations. Today, sustainability is more important than ever, as it allows us to be transparent and authentic about what we are doing on-farm to consumers. Dr. Spencer Wayne, Veterinarian at PIPESTONE Veterinary Services, and the host of…
Podcast 18 Question and Answer session with Luke Minion CEO of Pipestone
While there ‘feels’ like tremendous change has taken place within the pork industry industry, producers have becoming increasingly aware of the industry’s growing dependence upon the export market. Because farmers face many different issues, Dr. Spencer Wayne obtains answers to questions submitted from producers during this podcast interview with Dr. Luke Minion, Pipestone’s CEO.…
Podcast 17 The importance, effectiveness, and cost of sow farm filtration systems
While the use of air filtration systems on sow farms has been proven to reduce the incidence of airborne illness such as PRRS, there are still many swine operations that operate without it. While the design of physical structures vary, most if not all operations can reduce overall cost per pig if the correct…
Podcast 16 Latin America Swine Industry, Operations, Practices, and Opportunities with Dr. Gustavo Pizarro
Producers in Latin America and the United States share the same passion for agriculture, but the way to achieve the goal varies. From the economy to efficiency on farm, there are many differences in Latin America, but there is also a relationship building. In this episode, host Dr. Spencer Wayne talks with Dr. Gustavo…
SwineTime podcast 15: Business Decisions During Periods of Low Prices
Dr. Spencer Wayne of Pipestone Veterinary Services, and the host of the SwineTime podcast visits with Jim Marzolf, Vice-President of Pipestone Business Services to talk about new swine service offerings designed to assist farmers on the next SwineTime podcast. Having extensive background in Agriculture Accounting and fiscal management practices, Jim details four new ways Pipestone…
SwineTime podcast 14: Risk Management in Pig Production
SwineTime host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, speaks with Veterinarian, Dr. Gawen Zomermaand of Pipestone Veterinary Services. In this episode, you will discover what hedging looks like in pig production, how to best educate yourself on risk management, and the benefit of finding a good partner for advice and service. For information regarding hedging call Dr.…
Episode 13: We slowed pigs down: What was the effect and where do we go from here?
SwineTime host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, converses with Veterinarian, Dr. Brent Pepin and Nutritionist, Jon De Jong, at Pipestone Veterinary Clinic. In this episode, you will hear experts discuss the noticed effects of slowing pigs down, as well as their opinion on where we go from here. Featuring: SwineTime Host – Dr. Spencer Wayne (Veterinarian) …
SwineTime Podcast #12: Understand the Hutterite Colony Farmers
A christian agriculture community, the Hutterite Colony, meets with Dr. Spencer Wayne from Pipestone. Through the SwineTime Podcast, Dr. Wayne and two guests from different Hutterite communities discuss lifestyles and farming as a colony. Don’t miss future SwineTime podcasts The SwineTime podcast is a monthly podcast created for the pork industry and individual pork…
Episode 11: COVID-19 and it's Impact on Pig Production with Dr. Beth Thompson
SwineTime host, Dr. Spencer Wayne, visits with Dr. Beth Thompson, Minnesota State Veterinarian, about COVID-19 and it’s impact on the Swine Industry. Listen in as they discuss African Swine Fever preparedness and how COVID-19 has affected our risk for ASF, ways COVID-19 has affected our state and federal agencies, what food safety concerns there…
Episode 10: The importance of records and data and how it impacts your profits.
Dr. Spencer Wayne talks with Angie Homann of Pipestone Managements and uncovers the truth about records and data that result in profitability. Learn how important it is to utilize benchmarks for your operation to understand production strengths and reveal weaknesses needing improvement. Don’t miss future SwineTime podcasts The SwineTime podcast is a monthly…
Episode 9: Antibiotic Resistance with Dr. Carissa Odland
Dr. Spencer Wayne talks with Dr. Carissa Odland on her latest trial on Antibiotic Resistance. Find out if she has any answers. Don’t miss future SwineTime podcasts The SwineTime podcast is a monthly podcast created for the pork industry and individual pork producers around the country. The podcast world-renowned resources and expertise on Swine Health,…
Episode 8: Part 2 of Herd Disease Elimination
Listen in to Episode 8 Part 2: Herd Disease elimination as Dr. Spencer Wayne and Dr. Joseph Yaros for a historical and future perspective on swine herd disease elimination. Don’t miss future SwineTime podcasts The SwineTime podcast is a monthly podcast created for the pork industry and individual pork producers around the country. The podcast…
Episode 7: Herd Level Disease Elimination- Does it Work?
Swine Time Podcast #7 with Dr. Spencer Wayne talks with Dr. Joseph Yaros on how Pipestone handles herd level disease elimination, and how effective it is. Don’t miss future SwineTime podcasts The SwineTime podcast is a monthly podcast created for the pork industry and individual pork producers around the country. The podcast world-renowned resources and…
Episode 6: Water Quality
Listen to Dr. Spencer Wayne discuss the water quality at your barn with Dr. Todd Williams. Don’t miss future SwineTime podcasts The SwineTime podcast is a monthly podcast created for the pork industry and individual pork producers around the country. The podcast world-renowned resources and expertise on Swine Health, Management, Nutrition, Marketing, Business and more. …
Episode 5: Welfare
Listen in for Episode 5 of Swine Time with Dr. Carissa Odland as she talks about how Welfare is practiced every day at Pipestone. Don’t miss future SwineTime podcasts The SwineTime podcast is a monthly podcast created for the pork industry and individual pork producers around the country. The podcast world-renowned resources and expertise…
Episode 4: Secure Pork Plan
Listen in for Episode 4 of Swine Time with Dr. Brent Pepin as he talks about Secure Pork Plan and how to prepare incase of a Foreign Disease outbreak.
SwineTime Podcast with Pipestone Veterinary Services
Pipestone Veterinary Services is pleased to present “Swine Time” the podcast created for the pork industry and individual pork producers around the country. Our first podcast deals with the subject of African Swine Fever and what it means to the industry as a whole and more importantly the individual producer. Episode 2: Transboundary Work with…
Episode 4: Secure Pork Plan
Listen in for Episode 4 of Swine Time with Dr. Brent Pepin as he talks about Secure Pork Plan and how to prepare in case of a Foreign Disease outbreak. Don’t miss future SwineTime podcasts The SwineTime podcast is a monthly podcast created for the pork industry and individual pork producers around the country. The…
SwineTime Podcast by Pipestone: ASF and Transboundary Work with Dr. Scott Dee
Pipestone Veterinary Services is pleased to present “Swine Time” the podcast created for the pork industry and individual pork producers around the country. Podcast #2, continues with the subject of African Swine Fever and the transboundary work needing to be done with Dr. Scott Dee. Don’t miss future SwineTime podcasts The SwineTime podcast is a…
Episode 1: SwineTime Podcast by Pipestone: African Swine Fever
Pipestone Veterinary Services is pleased to present “Swine Time” the podcast created for the pork industry and individual pork producers around the country. Our first podcast, deals with the subject of African Swine Fever and what it means to the industry as a whole and more importantly the individual producer with Dr. Gordon Spronk. Don’t…